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Forums : General : Avengers vs. X-Men a lead-in to Marvel reboot?

42 posts, 8 voices

 

KamuiX
408 posts

I know they’ve been throwing a Marvel reboot rumor around for a while, but check out the latest: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/02/24/brian-be…

So AvX could be Marvel’s version of Flashpoint…and even if that isn’t true, if the Bendis thing IS, then it sounds as if the entire Regenesis storyline was a waste of time. I’m sure Bendis will take everything in a totally different direction, which makes little sense to me since I think the X books are back to being Marvel’s top sellers again. I’ve heard great things about post-Schism X-Men, but I must say this gives me even less of an incentive to try and get back into the X-Universe, as I couldn’t care less about Bendis.

 

Ryan
646 posts

wow i just dropped avengers at issue 20 (i really should have dropped it at issue 1)

I might buy into it if he only does one title, New avengers was decent while avengers was just uninteresting.

I mean he did do house of m and I liked that.

I’m still not going to buy avengers vs x-men

 

KamuiX
408 posts

House of M and Civil War are the last big Marvel events that really felt special. Everything since then, even though I’ve only read bits and pieces, have come off as trying to capture that lightning in a bottle again. And Bendis…well, I haven’t read anything he’s done in the past few years that I can say I really liked. And I know, I subscribe to Moon Knight, but it’s more due my completist OCD and real love for the character than anything else.

All I ever hear is great stuff about Aaron and Gillen’s work on the new books, and the sales seem to agree, so it seems odd that they’d change them up so quickly. And in no way do I see Bendis continuing the groundwork they’ve laid, he always seems to want to work from a clean slate. Hell, when he gets bored he does it to himself (post-Siege Avengers/New Avengers).

 

Ryan
646 posts

I started to lose interest when siege hit.

Then fear itself happened and that was just…

yeah.

I still need to read the .1 issues but… I really don’t want to read it anymore or anything to do with it.

 

Tom
576 posts

The only Marvel events I really follow are the ones that stay inside the X-Men sphere, like the Messiah trilogy and Age of X. This AvX stuff does nothing for me, though. The previous Heroic Age business was really limp and half-hearted, imo.

I don’t believe I’ve ever actually read anything by Bendis. He did House of M? I think I did read the first issue of that one long ago on Marvel’s subscription service. Recently, I’ve been a bit tempted to pick up the Spider-Woman TPB.

 

Tom
576 posts

But in regards to the idea of rebooting Marvel’s lines, sure, why not. We’ve had constant #1s, title switches and even decimal nonsense. Nothing would surprise me at this point. Maybe they should number everything backwards from 1000 except every other year when they reset and number up from 1.

 

Ryan
646 posts

they restarted uncanny x-men, the only title that hadn’t been rebooted yet. they’ve already broken my marvel heart.

 

Gus [Emeritus]
Administator
4326 posts

I liked Siege to some extent, but I’m not a Sentry fan. So, I actually preferred the Front Line tale to the main event.

And I agree that Heroic Age uplifting business didn’t last very long before the whole Fear Itself thing hit.

I don’t know how much I’ll follow AvX myself, though I have some stuff that ties into them (at the moment).

But in regards to the idea of rebooting Marvel’s lines, sure, why not. We’ve had constant #1s, title switches and even decimal nonsense.

Well, they’ve done tons of renumbering and whatnot, but they don’t generally reboot in the style DC does, right? The continuity remains even if there’s something of a focal shift.

I’d prefer not to see a ‘reality-altering event’ from Marvel. Leave it with DC (which already had history doing it with its many Crises and whatnot).

 

Tom
576 posts

Wasn’t OMD basically Crisis on Infinite Spider-men?

I hated the Crisis stuff from DC, but I’ve been generally pleased with The New 52. I guess I just don’t see how X-Men needs a change. At least DC pre nu52 felt a little stale in places. X-Men stays pretty current.

 

Joe
Administator
3025 posts

Wasn’t OMD basically Crisis on Infinite Spider-men?

Nah, Spidey’s history remained pretty intact past not being married anymore. It’s more akin to one of DC’s softer reboots like with the 52 series making its multiverse only having 52 different realities.

 

Gus [Emeritus]
Administator
4326 posts

Wasn’t OMD basically Crisis on Infinite Spider-men?

I’d have to say no, but I’m going to spoilerize the rest of my response just for people who haven’t read OMD, OMIT, and/or Flashpoint.

Spoiler text below in white, select it to see it.

OMD, as we later find out in OMIT, involves one very minor change in the past which alters the future in a very specific way. So, although Peter and MJ were never married, pretty much everything else in Spider-continuity remains the same. It was very carefully written.

Flashpoint, meanwhile, was – hey, let’s mess around with the whole continuity of the entire universe, without any real explanation of why the hell this is happening besides some Deus Ex Machina thing that has yet to be explained.

I’ll grant that there are similarities, and that an argument could be made that it’s the same sort of thing, but I propose that because of the manner of execution (as seen to date, we have yet to see everything play out on DCs side), and the range of effects (Spidey localized, DC universal), it is not the same.

 

Gus [Emeritus]
Administator
4326 posts

Also, Flashpoint is the only one I’ve read enough to use as comparison – even after reading DC Universe Legacies, and Wikipedia articles, I still don’t really grok what happened with those Crises.

 

Tom
576 posts

OMD made Peter younger and unattached, restored his secret identity, and overhauled his rogues’ gallery. I think those are the objectives of any reboot. I don’t see the point of resetting the X-Men to a similar square one again.

If we’re going to have anything, let it be a revamp that clears away and modernizes certain things.

 

KamuiX
408 posts

Hahaha, the Crises are maybe the most confusing big events ever. I like them to an extent though as I like how they’re very cosmic (bring back the cosmic stuff, Marvel!) All you need to know to really understand them is Crisis on Infinite Earths merged the DC multiverse into one Earth due to all sorts of craziness throughout all of the different universes, and a lot of characters from the 40s, like the JSA (who were on Earth-2), were de-aged (such as Alan Scott, Wildcat, Jay Garrick) and brought to the main DC universe. Earth-2 Superman and a couple others stayed behind to “watch”. Infinite Crisis split them all apart again, because those that stayed behind realized maybe they sacrificed the wrong Earth with how screwed up the DC universe was getting with murder, death, etc. In the midst of it all, lots of people die and sometimes come back to life. Final Crisis is best left ignored, lol. All that’s important is Barry Allen returns.

Between how complex their history was and how many different people take on a certain mantle (4 Flash’s, 5 GL’s, multiple Hawkmen, and down the line), I certainly understand how daunting it was before the reboot. Although while MOST of that has been reeled back, I still find it pretty funny that somehow Batman has managed to go through 4 Robin’s in the span of only 6-7 years (which is how long the current superheros in the new universe are supposed to have been around).

 

Gus [Emeritus]
Administator
4326 posts

OMD made Peter younger and unattached, restored his secret identity, and overhauled his rogues’ gallery.

Um, unless I missed something, it didn’t make him younger. The secret identity restoration likely would have come about anyway. The rogues’ gallery revamp had nothing to do with the events in OMD (and continuity wasn’t adjusted to revamp them).

So, that just leaves… it made him unattached so they could deal with new relationships rather than continue one they’d been working on for decades. Which I’m not sure I agree with (it might have been nice if they could have continued that part of the story rather than escape it, even if it’s only a temporary escape), but at least they’ve been writing it well.

Edit: They did use BND as a convenient ‘jumping-on point’, but they weren’t messing with continuity, they just jumped ahead in time a bit and told the intervening events of OMIT later.

 

Gus [Emeritus]
Administator
4326 posts

And after reading KamuiX’s summary of the Crises, I would say that OMD is in no way comparable to them.

 

Gus [Emeritus]
Administator
4326 posts

Although I should specify that I’m mainly talking about story and events in the story. Spidey had a small scope change that worked well within the story once it was explained. The Crises and DC New 52 are massive changes that don’t feel orchestrated nearly as well (though I may change my mind about the Flashpoint event after seeing later explanations of it, if DC does a later OMIT-style explanation).

If we’re looking at it from a publishing point of view, then yes, I’d see BND as a revamp measure to try and revitalize interest. Still not as broad a scope as DC’s changes, and I’m still not sure I’d call it a reboot given that it didn’t mess with continuity in totally random ways, but certainly a status-quo shift.

 

KamuiX
408 posts

There better be a Flashpoint explanation at some point…otherwise putting that mysterious girl that shows up at the end of the series in every one of the New 52 first issues was a massive waste. But it doesn’t need to interfere with all of the books like these summer events usually do; do an event mini-series that’s its own entity. I think they’ve done a good job so far of making all of the books feel as if they’re in the same universe without relying on crossovers to remind people about it. Lots of interplay between titles so far, but no stories that force you to pick up multiple titles to understand. Of course, that changes in May with the Young Justice mini-event.

 

Gus [Emeritus]
Administator
4326 posts

I do hope Marvel isn’t just going to ripoff DC and go all reboot on us…

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/02/21/a-new-5-…

And Marvel are also promising that the events of the series will actually affect the Marvel Universe, making it a different place, with actions taken setting the tone for… a new Marvel Universe.

They’re comparing it to Civil War in terms of impact, coming out of the series and keeping new readers for… whetever comes next. The new Marvel 52?

I’m ok if it’s like Civil War (status quo shift within continuity), not so much a fan if they go timey-wimey-alter-everything like DC.

 

KamuiX
408 posts

So, my thoughts. I’ve been far deeper entrenched in DC since coming back to comics 5-6 years ago than I have been Marvel. Before I took a break around 99, I was far more into Marvel. When I came back to reading comics heavily, for whatever reason I was drawn to reading all of the DC I never had before and becoming current on them. I started out strong with Marvel, loving House of M and Civil War, but I eventually fizzled out while my interest in DC kept growing. So when the DC reboot was announced, I was completely pissed to the point where I felt like I just wasted 5 years of reading tons of DC and learning nearly everything there was to know about their universe. But then the reboot happened, and outside of a handful of things, I’ve eaten my words and been pleasantly surprised by it all.

So I’d be open to whatever Marvel has planned. But at the same time, the idea annoys me, simply because in the past 6 months or so I’ve grown really attached to every Spider-Man title and the rest of the NYC street-level based booked (Punisher, Daredevil) as well as all of the Captain America books. I’d rather them not be touched. And while I don’t read the X-titles, what’s the point when they just recently rebooted them in a sense and everyone seems to like them? I’m also looking forward to the Age of Apocalypse series as that was one of the coolest story arcs of the 90s. So is that basically already dead before it starts? In a way, it’s almost like this was planned for a while. Marvel has pulled the trigger on a handful of things they’ve teased for decades, like Hulk and Banner being separated. It sort of reminds me of Grayson taking over the Batman mantle…a HUGE change, let’s see how it works, as it doesn’t really matter because in a year we’ll snap our fingers and everything will be back to the way it was.

So even though I’m far less attached to the Marvel U than I was the old DCU, I’m still torn on the idea. If it gets creative juices flowing and we see risks being taken again, then it can only be a good thing. But why sacrifice the titles that are already awesome for the ones that need to be overhauled? I think the Spidey and Cap titles as well as Punisher and Daredevil are a great blueprint to pull from. Tell centralized stories that only interplay between one another if it makes sense and refrain from breaking away every few months to include everything in whatever the new company-wide crossover is. I think that’s by far Marvel’s biggest issue.

 

Nattygreene
146 posts

This is an awful lot of reboot discussion based on a rumor from that one (err two) article(s) on bleeding cool. I think a status shift will be the likely outcome, not a full reboot. The only thing that sounds confirmed is that Bendis will be going to the X-books and impact from the event causing a “new” universe (no mention of crisis of infinite retcon). The Bendis bit I see as good news.

Weighing the likely outcomes of what that “new” will be, this is a list of guesses based on the x-story over the last 2 years:
-Mutants re-powered.
-Mutants as an outsider; possibly due to massive human deaths
-Major X-Character death (it’s standard now in the x-books now that event=death)

 

Tom
576 posts

Crossovers are the bane of my existence. Like I was thinking about trying some Avengers books recently but the “2 months until AvX!” just makes me want to avoid them at all costs. Getting mired in however many different lines to follow, all probably at $4 and double shipping, nuts to that.

When the Marvel president was being interviewed by CBR, and they asked him about crossovers, his reply was something like “We don’t do crossovers, we do line-wide editorial events”. Yeah, so, you do crossovers. Oh, it’s a “line-wide editorial event”? Awesome, I won’t have to spend $80 following it? I do? Well…at least it’s not a crossover.

 

Ryan
646 posts

I enjoyed my x-crossovers… but then again I was already subscribed to all those series.

 

Tesseract
4766 posts

Regardless of everything else being talked about, for those who don’t know, OMD/BND/OMIT is arguably the worst retcon in the history of comics. I still don’t think I’m fully over it. Carry on!

 

Gus [Emeritus]
Administator
4326 posts

Tess, I gotta disagree. Although I would have liked to see Peter and MJ’s relationship progress naturally, and I would’ve loved some more time with the Spidey Iron suit and the new powers, and although Peter doesn’t always make particularly reasonable decisions because his guilt/responsibility often overshadows things, I thought OMD/BND/OMIT was executed very well (especially OMIT, which was a great use of a minor change in the past shifting specific things in the future).

At the moment, I’d have to say Flashpoint is my worst retcon choice.

Anyone else have any other worst retcon nominees?

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